would this still be accepted in our time? (im not from the us)
Yep, you can still say horrible racist etc stuff in the US. It’s the dark side of the double-edged sword that is free speech.
It depends on the part of the country. In some places it’s still okay to say that stuff, and in others, you would quickly lose friends if you say it
I don’t think it’s OK, but I think there are places that people really won’t say anything-which is also wrong.
The equivalent to this today would be the members of Westboro Baptist Church. whose congregation are openly racist and homophobic.
I disagree, as much as I hate the WBC, they haven’t lynched anybody. They might be tasteless and horrible but they’re more about getting attention for themselves than actively trying to hunt down people to torture and kill. The KKK are scary scary scary, the WBC is more of a joke.
I do think freedom of speech is an absolute right, but rights cannot interfere with one another in principle. The WBC has disrupted funerals in ways that have kept mourners from paying their respects to their lost loved ones. Lines are being drawn, though, mainly through court rulings. There’s a lot written about all this so I won’t elaborate.
There was a klan rally in Erie, PA about a decade ago. However, when then rally was announced, a diversity festival was immediately announced in a nearby town, at the exact same time and day. Brilliant!
Wow! That is brillant! Good for them!
AFAIK Westboro isn’t actually racist. The head of Westboro actually worked on civil rights campaigns (in regards to race) once. It DOES deeply espouse homophobia. Its main tactic is getting media attention
Yeah, I don’t know if they are the same thing…
Today KKK looks superficially like WBC, but back in the day they were a widespread terrorist insurgent conspiracy, successfully oppressing racial minorities, influencing state/local politics and deterring federal intervention.
Okay, today in the 21st century, or back in the 80s, it’s more sensible to tolerate them (and monitor them as the FBI does all radical groups). But back in Reconstruction? We should have kept martial law a bit longer and stamped them out for good, or at least showed them who’s boss.
And we’re back to the old saying, “I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”
Censorship of “improper” words is like putting makeup on an infection to hide it — the thoughts behind the words. You don’t treat the disease that way. Lancing a boil is ugly business, but that’s how the healing starts.
got that here too (not KKK, but a similar organisation that likes to vandalise other people’s properties), and by reading the news everywhere else in the world. Some ideas should definitely be R-rated – not for kids… unfortunately that would probably only make them sound more interesting
talking and educating people still is the best long-term solution. I just wish the short-term one could includ telling the jerks to shut up…
Renting American History X helps too.
You can also tell them to shut up, but you can’t force them to.
It’s sad and true…
Wow, I totally forgot about that scene!
Ok, heres a tough one fer you smart fellers of the Dumm:
what do you feel about the laws in many European countries against the denial of the Holocaust?
I think it’s peachy. It’s okay to have some laws against being a dickhead.
I think it’s really dumb. It gives fuel to the conspiracy theorists. The mentality then becomes “if they trying to suppress our message, it must be for a reason!”
IMO Truth does not need to be protected. Truth will always stand when faced against lies and deception and superstition. To prevent dissension and controversy –even if it’s fueled by bigotry or just plain stupidity– is to belittle the power of Truth.
I’m a free speech zealot and generally against it, but I think there’s a non-insane case for such censorship. It doesn’t actually silence the censored, but it does strongly express a communal point of view that certain views are completely unacceptable in public discourse. I’m glad that such censorship would not be legal in the U.S., but if you reason from “first principles”, if we didn’t have a Constitution and had to write our laws from scratch, then considering all the loopholes we’ve put in our free speech protections (e.g. copywritten or classified information, trademarks, libel, slander, “fire in a crowded theater”, obscenity, etc) I’m not absolutely sure it’s so important that hate speech would continue to be protected.
But don’t you think that the moment a certain idea or argument is protected against opposition by the use of force –in this case not just the banning from public channels of communication but imprisonment– that said idea automatically turns into dogma?
I’m not saying I have the answer (other than promoting good education). I just wanted to weigh in the opinion of the Dumm fans :)
But seriously that must have been pretty surreal to actually see them, I suppose saying and actually practicing beliefs are two different things. They came to our city once, although they were protested against by an outnumbering group , I just saw it on TV though.
I saw nothing of this as a child, despite the fact that my state is supposedly the largest Klan-infiltrated state in the nation (according to some article I read years ago–so that info might not be true now, anyhow)–but I recall the abject horror I felt as a 20 year old, heading for the first time on a trip into a southern state I won’t name. My friend and his family, who we’d traveled to see, were all totally at peace with the idea that “dumb n*****s” could/should be harmed or killed in a variety of unsavory ways. I was dumbfounded. Were these people alive at the turn of the 21st century? Weren’t they aware that this language, these attitudes, were poisonous? I couldn’t understand it. Where had they been for the last forty years? My friend and I stopped being friends on that journey, and we haven’t spoken since. I feel bad about it, still–there were lots of things I wish had said or done differently. But at the time, all I wanted to do was get away.
Wow, quite a story!
I think you are better off ending that friendship. I wouldn’t feel bad for not reforming them. All you can do in that situation is tell them how you feel and tell them you disagree with them. I bet if they valued your friendship, they would at least think twice about their opinions.
Protecting someone’s right to speak is quite different from giving them a platform to speak about it. I endorse the former, but not the latter.
A very powerful message this week. Nice work, Gabe.
I wanted to say that you did some great (!) expressions on the kid character in this one.
Thanks! He definitely was pushed a little further in this ep.
I recall that the KKK visited some years back and supposedly some kids from the High School threw eggs at their parade. I’m pretty sure the rally happened, kind of think the egging is a falsehood (although it would make me very happy if it were true).
I think they only come to our town once in a very long while.
Did you hear about all the race issues that happened at Warwick back in 08/09? It’s pretty sad, but overt racism and hate crimes have been on the rise.
There was a suicide when I was in High School that was all based on homophobia. It wasn’t good.
I didn’t know about the stuff that happened at Warwick, geeze.
After a few friends and I ended a D&D campaign we decided to go out to a small diner to eat. When we got there we saw a curious little sign on the door which said, “The KKK meeting will be postponed until next week as the grand wizard is sick.” I would like to note that this was in Massachusetts, about two years ago, within shouting distance of Gillette stadium. We haven’t been back to that diner.
Aren’t their Wizards in D&D too? :)
Wow, that’s crazy. I would have boycotted that diner too! Good job!
Wow, congrats on making one of the strongest messages you’ve ever seen in this series.
Also, congrats on being a better man than me. I wouldn’t have spared a second thought on calling them out. I still oppose them, but if it were me at that age, I probably would have done something really stupid out of blind rage.
Sorry, that should be I’VE ever seen. Got my sentences crossed.
Thanks so much! It was kinda scary to do one like this, but it seemed to be well received! More to come! :)
I think my emotions at that age would have ended on fear. To me they were like strange, inhuman monsters that fed off misery- like the dementors from Harry Potter. They scare me a lot less now, but I’m still firmly against them.
I was also afraid but a lot more angry, any younger, I would have been just scared.
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